1200 Crankshaft Question(s) For All You Guru's
Civic1200 Discussion Board: : 1200 Crankshaft Question(s) For All You Guru's
JohnS,
Thanks again for your reponse and thoughts...yes, boring/replacing pistons etc would most certainly be the correct way to go. Like I said in my earlier post, this car was supposed to be CHEEP FUN-and I keep finding more to spend money on than I originally anticipated! 
Getting my wife to cough up money for this car from our "household budget" is problematic at best! 
As for your CVCC question, unfortunately there AREN'T any of those at my local place, just one sadly rusted and crunched 1200 and a couple similarly ruined second gens. Have you talked to Colin (CVCCx2)? He has 2 of 'em, and may have a lead for you on those stubs. If I do happen to find any when I'm out around, I'll be sure to drop you an e-mail. It's soon gonna be OPEN SEASON at the boneyards...Spring's A-Comin'!
Regards,
Shea
Oh yeah,
If you are going to that much trouble, you really should bore the block and end up with a good motor, unless you just went through all of that less than 10 or maybe 20 thousand miles ago.
Shea,
I am sure Adrian is correct about the difference between tuftriding and nitriding, I always get those two confused. If while you are at the wreckers could you see if you can find a '78-'79 CVCC, I need a spare set of rear stub axles so I can outfit mine with a rear disc set up (I want to prep them and throw the entire assemblies on at one time).
WOW! Thanks for the quick responses, guys!
John S-yes, you can feel the marks with a fingernail-guess I didn't need to post pictures after all.
Adrian-glad to know that the cranks are interchangeable. I know where there are a couple of these things sitting (at the local wreckers) so getting a crank won't be much of a problem.
I had thought of the EN1 stroker thing, doubt it would even be any more expensive getting the crank and rods, either (same wrecking yard). I don't believe that I'll go that route, though, as I was planning on just honing the cylinders, cleaning the crank and putting her all back together. I "think" due to normal cylinder wear patterns I'd have to have them bored for clean up in order that the rings would'nt "catch" with the longer stroke? Ahh, neither here nor there anyway, I'll just stick with the plan and grab a better stock crank when finances allow...should be sometime come spring, as I have other stuff I'd planned to purchase first.
A great big "THANKS" to all for your input. The sharing of knowledge for the benefit of others is the best thing about the internet. One day, when I have more experience, I hope I can be as helpful to some "newbie" guys as you all have been to me!
Regards,
Shea
It is certainly physically possible to machine Honda cranks BUT it's not worth it. First you need to find the correct undersize bearings (you certainly won't get these from Honda), then you have to get it machined properly and PROPERLY hardened (nitrided, not tuftrided). It's possible but will be easily three to five times the price of a perfectly good second hand crank and potentially unreliable. These cranks are extremely hard and only seem to wear out due to oil starvation and using crap oil for long periods of time. I've yet to come across one that isn't usable with a light polish. I'd give you one but the postage would be an absolute killer. EB1, 2 and 3 cranks are interchangable. As John says, if you need a new crank you might as well go with an EN1 crank, rods and pistons and get the extra displacement and mid range torque.
Forgot to mention it but you'd need the rods from the 1335 too.
Shea, Honda says if you can catch a figernail on it running it across a journal it is junk. Bet he didn't tell you how much it would cost you to ship the crank back and forth to get it ground and tufrided and what the process itself costs. If you could depend on them doing the work correctly etc, I'd say go that route. BUT, personally I'd get a good used crank instead, and if you are going to do that then the EN1 is the way to go. Probably easier to find too.
Yep, I remember you saying that, Colin. Interesting! I was starting to give it some cleanup with crocus cloth at work tonight on lunch. One of the technicians there (about 20 yrs. experience) looked it over and said if I didn't have it machined, it would just ruin new bearings. I explained to him that what I'd heard and read on this subject indicated that these cranks CAN NOT be machined due to the hardening process. His response, "That's bullshit, you just get it rehardened." WTF? I don't want to knock this guy, he knows a lot about diesels, etc. and I've learned alot from working under him. Don't think he's got any experience with Hondas, though. Seemed pretty quick to dismiss anything I had to say on the subject. Told me he'd take it to a machinist friend of his in Scarborough and have him look at it, kinda said it like it was a foregone conclusion I'd agree. This kind of "help" I don't need. Anybody else out there in Hondaland got any thoughts? Maybe I should try to borrow Mom's digicam and post some pix this week? I've gotta make the right decision here, I know to most of you guys, the price of bearings is nothing, but I can't afford to second guess.
Man, I wish I could go to sleep.
Thanks again, all.
Regards,
Shea
Shea,
Just as a side note, I did have this engine running before disassembly, and there were no unusual noises coming from anywhere within the engine. In fact, I had 2 old school Honda techs inspect the crank once removed, as I had similar questions, and they didn't see any serious concerns with what they saw, and both gave me the go-ahead with reassembly with just some minor clean up of the surfaces of the crank and new bearings, stating that what was there was not unusual for a 1200 series engine.
Hope this helps!
Colin
Ah yes, Friday The 13th...
I'm slowly tinkering around with cleaning and inspecting engine pieces for my Civic. The engine was in pieces when I bought the car (came with all the rebuild bits except bearings), figured I just had to get new bearings, clean it up and reassemble it-WRONG!! I think my crankshaft might be "stuffed" as the UK and Aussie folks call it. There are massive grooves worn in all the journals, particularily the mains. You can see an unworn "stripe" of crank dead centre of each journal, where the oil groove is in the bearing shells. The wear pattern also appears to be eccentric, that is, the grooves are deeper on one side of the journals than the other.
Now, on to the questions. Where do I go from here? I don't believe this crank is useable, it just looks too worn to me. The bearings were trashed, worn down to copper colour, looked "smeared" like the bearing material actually melted. I've heard that due to the hardening process, these cranks aren't machinable. What on earth do you guys do when you overhaul one of these things? Should I be shopping for a better crank? Seems that most (all) used ones would have some wear. Are all the 1200 crankshafts interchangeable (EB1, EB2, EB3)? For reference, my engine is a 1977 EB2. This car is supposed to be about a 1/2 shoestring budget plaything, so I CANNOT afford to call Majestic or wherever and buy a new crank. Any thoughts, past experience and wisdom you folks can offer would be appreciated. TIA
Regards,
Shea