While I'm posting pics, here are a few more from my April 17th event.

By Ted (63.224.195.169) on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 02:53 pm:

Got my plates installed, and it looks like I have 2.5 degrees negative camber in back with 3.5 degrees in front with wheels straight.

The good news is because I increased positive castor (not sure what %, need to measure), I have 5.0 degrees negative camber to the outside front tire with the steering wheel at left or right stop. This could come in handy on spin cones! My body role rate is still higher than what these plates offer on very hard corners, but my guess is my times will be improved.

By Kurt (207.81.105.140) on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 12:23 am:

Thanx Adrian. I kind of figured that might be the case but wasn't too sure. The toe was off from replacing the tie rod ends and they did mention they had to make an adjustment to the toe adjustment too. I just figured pay the money and fix it as I would have shelled out even more buying new tires (or tyres down under )

- Kurt

By Adrian (Evocivic) (165.228.11.61) on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 11:30 pm:

I hate tyre places that think that a little neg. camber is a bad thing! You WANT some negative camber and you will get a bit (not a lot) by lowering it. Lowering it will have affected the toe a bit and no doubt it was out before you did it anyway. A bit of negative camber will not chew out the insides of your tyres (you need a LOT to do that), but incorrect toe definitely will destroy your tyres.

By Kurt (207.6.43.211) on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 11:18 pm:

So does the camber go out when ever you lower one of these cars? My front end is only down about 1.5" but when I had the alignment done today he mentioned what I really needed was the camber to be adjusted and just a little to the toe. Its just that I have noticed the inside edge of the tires will get scrubbed out. Given, I have cut springs but I wouldn't think that would effect camber (I know, I know, I just havn't got down to the spring shop in the city yet). I found some camber plates in a wrecked car about a month ago but did not have the tools to remove them....I hope its still there!

- Kurt

By Ted (63.224.195.169) on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 01:22 pm:

John, will let you know. These spherical bearings are not the heat-treated steal style, but the softer brass kind. My guess is they should last about a year with a dozen autocross days.

By John S. (64.12.117.16) on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 08:52 am:

Say Ted,
I'd like to know how much stiffer that makes the ride, and how long you might expect those Heim joints to last before needing replacment.

By Ted (63.224.195.169) on Friday, May 14, 2004 - 02:47 pm:

Junior, Are you asking about the price I paid for the coil-over kits?

Yes I want your front brake lines. I'll email you and we can work out a price.

By Junior (205.188.116.204) on Friday, May 14, 2004 - 01:42 pm:

Hey Ted, looking good. I see how you strapped the spring in place. So, how much did you pay? You could email me the price if you don't mind. Oh, do you want a set of Russell steel brake lines for the front? They are from the same set that I sold the rear. If you want them, give me an offer. I got a new set of Goodridge steel lines.

By Ted (63.224.195.169) on Friday, May 14, 2004 - 09:05 am:

They didn't load from home, but they should work now:

By Ted (24.21.44.39) on Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 07:19 pm:

Here they are:

By Zippy (Zippy) (12.106.14.107) on Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 02:54 pm:

Pictures?

By Ted (63.224.195.169) on Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 01:21 pm:

I just got my camber plates back from the fabricator. The tig welds look funky, but oh well, everything was free. Welder said he felt bad about taking so long, so no charge. I got adjustable rear plates as well. They would have looked much better if they were machined, but these should hold just fine. 1/4 inch steel plates were used. Plasma cut.

Will post some pics tomorrow. I went with a design that uses just one plate, so as negative camber is increased, the positive caster also increases. I took Adrians model and designed the plates to move inwards and back along a linear line. The sphyrical bearing is held in by a welded top, and the bottom traps the bearing using a inside c-clip. The rears are adjustable for camber only. The KONI rods had to be turned down to make the system work, but my spring rate is so stiff that loss of travel is not noticed.

By Don (199.2.139.156) on Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 02:25 am:

Weber DATR, Not the minor fuel slosh fuel would and did come out of the vent in the top of the carb.
The air clearner was wet with fuel after every run. FIRE anyone? Still not totaly fixed but some tricks thanks to the Fiat guys cures about 70%.

By Adrian (Evocivic) (165.228.11.61) on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 11:46 pm:

Not really. The standard carbs suffer from terrible fuel surge in right hand turns. Even the RS twins do it (at a higher speed). Don't you have to run a standard carb on your car Don? Or were you allowed a Weber?

By Chaffneue (Chaffneue) (64.180.112.150) on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 10:54 pm:

Holy.. now That's a turn :D

>I was having trouble keeping fuel in the float bowls on earlier autocrosses this year.

-Richard

By Don (199.2.139.194) on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 09:23 pm:

The car corners very fast. I was having trouble keeping fuel in the float bowls on earlier autocrosses this year. Turn is is fine I normally let up just enough to get past the apex them hammer the throttle again and the lsd locks back up and pulls the car out of the corner. FUUUN

By Andrew Fatseas (203.63.44.193) on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 07:49 pm:

The welded on threaded rod sounds like the way to go. I'll just have to find someone competent to weld it (don't trust myself to do it securely enough!).

By Adrian (Evocivic) (165.228.11.61) on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 07:44 pm:

Depends ....
I threaded the front end. First I screwed some nuts onto the thin thread on the end then welded them on and ground them round to make a shaft the same diameter all the way to the end. Then I just threaded the rod for a goodly distance. I've got a crush tube in the bushes to stop the thread tearing them to bits. Another way would be to cut the end of the rod off and weld a length of threaded rod on (will need to be a good weld, probably sleeved). For some reason I didn't think of this method when I made mine and did it the more difficult way.

By Andrew Fatseas (203.63.44.193) on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 07:28 pm:

Thanks Adrian, I might just try the quick and dirty in order to experiment (don't like the idea of cutting up my noltec bushes though, will play with rotten old rubber ones).

How hard is it to get the rod threaded?

By Adrian (Evocivic) (165.228.11.61) on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 07:24 pm:

As you suspect, shortening the radius rods is probably the easiest and cheapest method. There are a number of different ways to do it. Either (as you said) move the stop washer and weld it back on or remove the stop washer, thread the rod and make it easily adjustable. The problem with a wleded on washer is it's a bugger to adjust as you have to pull it all to bits to get adjustment washers in and out. With a threaded rod you just wind the adjustment nuts backwards and forwards.
I found that at least 4 degrees of castor was good. I can't remember how much shorter the radius rods need to be to get 4 deg. but the lower control arms can handle it with no trouble. Shorter radius rods will have a *very slight* impact on the camber, taking some neg out of it but is more than made up for but the vastly better turn in you get.
A very quick and dirty method if you have the separate radius rods and control arms is to take out the 'front' bush that goes in the control arm, get a hacksaw and cut about 10mm off the fat side of it. Reinstall it and push the radius rod back in. Put the bit you cut off on the end of the rod (you could also use a few big washers) and put back the washer and nut. Cheap (free), easy (you only need 14mm & 17mm sockets and a hacksaw) and fast (at most an hour if you haven't done it before, much faster if you have).

By Andrew Fatseas (203.63.44.193) on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 07:09 pm:

Pretty good! Quite a lot of fabrication though to get those plates happening. Perhaps a radius rod mod would be easier...

How is turn in?

By Don (199.2.139.164) on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 07:07 pm:

yes it moves both ways
Dont fall over but the caster is set at 7 degrees

By don (199.2.139.164) on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 07:05 pm:

Link

Trying again to link

By Andrew Fatseas (203.63.44.193) on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 07:04 pm:

Does that plate move in two different directions Don? (ie back and forth and side to side)

If so, how many degrees of caster are you getting roughly?

By Don (199.2.139.164) on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 07:01 pm:

http://www.autoracer.net/frt.html

cruise the site and feel free to ask questions

By Andrew Fatseas (203.63.44.193) on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 06:45 pm:

This is obviously my week for asking questions...

For anyone that has modified the front caster on their civic, how did you do it? I suppose one way would be to have one of the stops (big washer thing) removed and rewelded a bit further inwards on the radius rod then fill the gap with washers to make it adjustable.

How far can the bottom of the strut be moved forwards realistically (before it affects the movement of the lower control arm)? How far in would you move the stop?

Cheers,

Andrew