yeah, i will replace all suspension and brakes. im thinking about going carb instead of fi. it seems easyer and less money. . if i have the choice for an el or an ek wich would be better for what. i do more drag racing than road racing so thats what im intrested in.

By Colza (Colza) (219.88.31.29) on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 08:45 pm:

EL were canadian models too. Im sure someone here can help you find one. If you are going FI Turbo then the EL will be MUCH easier. If you are going carbie turbo then it wont really matter either way. Both engines bolt in, but you may need some stiffer front springs as they are iron block and pretty heavy.

By malcon pierce (Project79) (209.214.45.18) on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 09:35 am:

im thinking about finding an ek. one reason is because i live in the us and i could find one easyer than finding an el wich was in nz. its an 1800 stroker? thats awesome Is the swap hard?
on the turbo you say the t3 its good? i was looking at a t3t4 hybrid but those are expensive and may be to big? who knows but i can get them for like 150 so i have a good connection.

By Colza (Colza) (219.88.29.239) on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 04:16 am:

Different countries have different versions. Here in NZ we have EL which are non-cvcc 1600 and EK which have the cvcc head and are stroked to 1800cc. Bore is the same for some of the years, but im thoroughly lost as to which ones happened when and in what country =P

By shnitzel (24.66.80.104) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 07:07 pm:

the garret t3 turbo off a 2.2L daytona is an excellent choice. have one on my 1.6L and it works great. spools up so fast i can barely have time to shift between 1-2 & 2-3 and she pulls right up to redline.

By malcon pierce (Project79) (209.214.45.119) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 05:42 pm:

whats the difference between the ek and the el?... and i am going turbo but what size turbo do i need? i would like a nice full power band

By Colza (Colza) (219.88.30.191) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 11:35 pm:

I didnt even know they made EL's before '79! But there are so few of that era cars around now that its not all that surprizing i havent run into one i suppose...

By Kyle Thomson (24.83.12.187) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 06:55 pm:

I'm all confused lately about the EL's, H from calgary posted pics showing that the 79-81, and 82-83 EL's are 4 port heads just with different spacing, and only the 76-78 heads were 2 port? please tell me thats right cause I just bought a 2 port header, I looked at my manifold, and I swear its a 2 port but I didn't take it off the head to see for sure

By Quikrick (Quikrick) (63.204.16.66) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 04:33 pm:

Nope! The early 76-78 has a smaller cumbustion chamber diameter for a 74mm bore and the late model 79-81 goes with a 77mm bore. That's why the US 79-81 EK1 (77mm bore) is a perfect match for the later Canadian EL head.

By Kurt (205.250.75.226) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 04:15 pm:

I beleive the 76-78 EL head is the same as the 79-81 anyway...at least here in Canada

By Kyle Thomson (24.83.12.187) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 08:10 am:

I have the 76-78 EL =( not that I wouldn't find another engine just to try this =) I wonder if Twyla would notice a few missing parts?

By Kurt (205.250.75.226) on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 11:32 pm:

Thats the 79-81 EL you are describing.

Tempting ain't it Kyle?

By Colza (Colza) (210.54.193.159) on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 11:52 pm:

The studs that need to be moved are 2 of the ones in the head for holding the intake manifold on. The city turbo has sortof teardrop shaped ports to fit the injector in. To be able to grind these out of the EL head you have to build a up about 5ish mmm of weld above the intake ports on the head. Im not sure what year the engine is, i never saw the car that it came out of. For any of this to work you need an EL/EK with the IEEIIEEI port config. Im not sure how the ports were aranged in other countries, but we have several different ones over here, its just a matter of checking all the ones you see until one with the right arrangement pops up.

Having brushed out all the cobwebs to post this up, i have now started thinking about running this engine in one of my cars again. Just tossing up whether i put in my current reasonably modded city turbo engine, or if i start all over again with a new one, that is 400cc bigger =D

By Kurt (205.250.75.226) on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 12:02 pm:

Interesting, So what year EL head are you refferring to the 82-83 or 81 and down. The 82-83 EL heads have evenly spaced ports while the earlier ones are siamesed (O O O O vs. OO OO)

So what your saying is that the intake will also bolt on with some minor mods. I assume you mean some porting to the head for the injector cut outs and what do you mean by removal of a stud - a mounting stud I presume?

By Colza (Colza) (219.88.58.144) on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 05:22 am:

Have a look at www.cityturbo.com our little cities are far far more sophisticated than many people give them credit for. They are multipoint injected AND cvcc injected (so 5 injectors in total). The cvcc setup works fantastically for reducing detonation, but it means only the very top of the range aftermarket ecu's can run a city turbo engine. The reason i would (and still may) pick an EL to do a city/accord hybrid is that you get injection and boost, but can block off the cvcc section of the manifold and not have to worry about complicated engine management setups. Technically it may be possible to run an EK with this setup and use the factory city ecu to continue to run the cvcc. You would then have to put in some big injectors and up the rail pressure until the city ecu was putting in enough fuel for the now 1800 engine. While the EK may work out cheaper, it would be a bugger to tune nicely and may or may not even run. The EL would be a more serious project, but would be much more likely to actually give you a decent drivable engine at the end of it (at least i think so anyway).

The other minor issue is the turbo. Naturally a city turbo is meant for a 1200cc engine and if you put a 1600/1800 engine on it you are going to get HUGE low down torque (ie burnout machine) and a very restricted top end. There are however people making up hybrid turbos with City exhaust housings bored out to fit a Mazda GTX (1.6l or 1.8l) centre and compressor housing. There are a few of these made but none are yet up and running on engines, we shall have to wait and see how that works out =D

[/ramble]

By lazy (165.228.57.19) on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 05:03 am:

i thought the er turbos used a single point fuel injection setup - or is that just the turbo 1's?

Could you provide some photos please Colza?

By Colza (Colza) (219.88.58.144) on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 03:22 am:

I have an EL (gen 1 i think) head about 2 ft away from me. The City Turbo exhaust manifold is a bolt on. To make the intake manifold (and associated fuel injection =D ) fit you have to build up the top of the head so you can fit the injector cutouts and move 2 studs.

By Kurt (205.250.75.226) on Sunday, September 19, 2004 - 11:53 pm:

City Turbo manifolds don't bolt to the EL or EK motors...do they?

By Colza (Colza) (219.88.58.191) on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 08:46 pm:

EL or EK all the way mate. Thats the best power to effort ratio you can get i think. With City Turbo coming a very close second cos of its more complicated wiring...

By malcon pierce (Project79) (209.214.44.121) on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 08:34 am:

well ive "calmed down" a little and i am thinking about rebuilding the 1200. i would love to dual carb it, but im afraid it still will not have enough power. haha i just want to beat my friends stock mustang gt in my little civic. he says it cant be done but by hearing you guys talk and seeing videos i know it can be. but it would be nice to find a bigger engine but one that will fit in the place of the 1200 hundred.

By farenheight101 (24.69.255.203) on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 08:01 am:

malcon, don't forget about the power to wieght ratio. These things only wiegh like 1200-1500 lbs (something like that) so 100hp will do lots of good. If you gonna go crazy big, make sure you get an LSD so people don't call you one tire fire at the track.

By Colza (Colza) (210.54.103.33) on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 01:56 am:

"probably less work than a B18?" youre nuts mate. EK would be a cool swap, id prefer an EL personally, but it depends on what you can find. You dont need a 'custom' turbo either, just City turbo manifolds and injection and some engine management.

By Kurt (205.250.75.226) on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 01:12 pm:

For simplicity sake I would say go witht the EK. Its a heavy motor but it sounds like you more into drag racing it then racing around a track. The power diference is incredible compared to the stock motor and as time progresses you can add things to it like dual carbs, headers, cam and hey why not a custom turbo? Its probably less work than the B18 swap and the EK motors are plentiful and can be had cheap as its 20 plus years old.

- Kurt

By Colza (Colza) (210.54.103.31) on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 08:09 pm:

Refer to the other current thread about B series engines. Its a little more challenging than just making some mounts mate...

By malcon pierce (Project79) (209.214.44.17) on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 04:57 pm:

or could i get the same power out of my 1200. but i think it would be worth getting teh b series

By malcon pierce (Project79) (209.214.44.17) on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 04:53 pm:

well im looking at getting a b 16, i have what i need to fab mounts and stuff and i know il need brakes and suspension but will that even fit in the bay? i dont think im going to turbo it b/c the b16 has 160, well the one im looking at, it comes with everything, tranny alternator all hoses needed ecu and al that jive. i just want to know if it wil work

By Justin (199.60.112.10) on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 09:58 am:

Malcon, if you are trying to get over 100hp. be prepared to spend alot of money.. I have a ER turbo in Tywla's car, it coast me roughly $2500.00 to get it in her '76 civic.. new turbo, front mounted intercooler, piping, exhaust, fuel pump, wiring etc etc..

By Colza (Colza) (210.54.103.53) on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 10:39 pm:

If you can find an ER turbo it will haul ass. (man i love being in nz :P)

By malcon pierce (Project79) (209.214.44.132) on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 04:01 pm:

that sucks, i would like to find one in the us or canada, and also find a moter that will work that has power.

By Kurt (205.250.75.226) on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 03:21 pm:

90 hp? Try 52 HP. The ER would be my choice but you will have to import one Australia or New Zealand... unless you already there

By malcon pierce (Project79) (209.214.44.132) on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 03:15 pm:

crap..what about transmissions? will the transmissions for these engines work with my car? i just want to know whats going on haha

By malcon pierce (Project79) (209.214.44.132) on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 03:02 pm:

and, how fast wil these cars go with one of these moter swaps. b/c 90 hp just doesnt seem like its going to do anything

By malcon pierce (Project79) (209.214.44.132) on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 02:59 pm:

ok here is what im looking at right now,
EK1800
EL 1600
ER turbo
ES1800
ET2000

now im sure the er is hard to find. but what could i get the most power out of!
andy anybody done this, and have problems? please let me know