Yeah Don,
I can't handle any epoxies without gloves now without getting a skin rash...gloves and respirator for me only now. But as I was a signwriter for 20+ years I was using all kinds of potentially deadly stuff, but the epoxies and the new urethane automotive paints were the worst of the lot.

By Jarcaf (Jarcaf) (207.55.238.216) on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 01:26 pm:

It's too bad they aren't still available. I suppose I'll have to resort to my earlier plan of fabbing one up to look like the Kamei. I wish I could see a pic of that rear spoiler so I could see what I'd need to do to mimic that. Was that a roof-mounted or valence(ground) mounted spoiler? I've got a sedan, so anything that was dmounted to the hatch or roof either wouldn't work or just wouldn't look right. I'm trying to figure out what's possible to tie up the bottom of the rear-end. It looks pretty bad on these cars, and it's a good foot off the ground. I'm also looking at some various decklid spoilers from different cars, to sharpen up the trunk corner. I'm thinking something pulled off an e30 BMW like a 325is would look classy. I want to avoid ugliness and impracticality, so maybe just a lo-pro wing w/ a LED tail-light and small turn-downs on the ends, or just a simple M3 style lip would look ok. I'm sure as hell not aiming for anything like the over-glorified formula 1 wings sitting on top of Neons and newer Civics. What do you guys think would look decent?
Thanks,
-Jarvis

By Don (199.2.139.197) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:21 pm:

A little more searching turned up the info Thanks

By Don (199.2.139.181) on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 07:39 pm:

John where would I find out more about the Vinylester? I did a Google search and they are still listing it as an Epoxy. I will have to be more careful! I have used epoxy resins and still have large amounts.... I wondered what happened to those brain cells
I did always use lots of ventilation though.
Its slowing down for the winter and I have time to make a mold for the 1200 airdam.

By John S. (66.142.45.8) on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 09:57 pm:

Jarcaf,
In answer to your question about the Kamei 80-83 2nd Gen front spoiler, yes there was one. A European based company named Foha also made a design of urethane,,,stiffer, thicker, and heavier than the Kamei one which is was made of injection moulded ABS. By the way if you have a Kamei which you have smacked they can be repaired, it is not easy however as you must use the proper bonding agents and prep all surfaces properly for the stuff to stick...if done properly I believe the fix can be stronger than the surrounding origional areas, but only if done properly. I have a Foha which is in need of work, but I don't like the design of it so there is another project on the list of all projects. Foha also made a rear spoiler to compliment their front one which was apparently a factory add on to the 83 "S" model in either or both England, Holland, or perhaps all throughout Europe, they were imported here in small quantity by Foha, but apparently are as gone as the DODO. Damn shame. It takes space to store the tooling on manufactured products and unfortunately when a company doesn't see a further profit in keeping the tooling they just destroy it , or sometimes sell it to some one else. Kind of like John Lamb Design who did the wonderful pieces for the First Gen Civics and Accords, I'm betting he no longer has the moulds which is a damn shame too.
The "big whigs" call this programmed obsolescence. I have another name for it which cannot be used in polite company.

By John S. (66.142.45.8) on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 09:28 pm:

Libucu,
My problem at this point, is I don't have the time to do it. This is the reason I haven't pursued Jonathans offer to make a mould for a CVCC Kamei...at this time... winter is coming and you would be a fool to work with those materials inside a closed house. In the summer I can open up the garage to get full ventilation so the fumes waifing off of the curing resins are not so big a problem. I still want to make a mold for a CVCC Kamei spoiler, but it would not be,for me at least, a quick turnaround. I do not work that fast, I have too many things on the agenda at any given time. I have been driving and working on these cars since I bought my first new one a 1975 CVCC 5-sp. I fully expect to have the cars I have now as long as it is possible to keep them running. We are all unfortunate in that we have chosen to pursue a marque that does not have the support of VW's or Minicoopers. I can see parts availability on some key parts becoming a problem in the future, We will have to become wizards at modifying other parts which are avalible to fit our cars, and fabricating pieces which cannot be found. Anyone who is pursueing this "hobby" in any other than just a passing fancy I am sure is becoming more and more aware of this dilemma.

By John S. (66.142.45.8) on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 09:08 pm:

I am the first John S., as I said I have been posting almost since the begining, which Ricard can attest to since he is able to track all direct communications thru the site as tied to our URL numbers.

By Zippy (Zippy) (12.106.14.107) on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 06:25 am:

Thanks for the glass primer. So, are you John Stallone or another John S

By Don (199.2.139.226) on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 05:53 am:

Ok now I'm confused So there is a John S and a John S ????

By Jarcaf (Jarcaf) (207.55.238.216) on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 12:29 am:

Don,
The 2nd Gen Kamei is listed below all of the 73-79, below the 80-83, and is inside of the 80-82 section. It's listed as part # g6048. I'm pretty sure every Kamei-style airdam I've seen on a gen2 is a knock-off, not as if I've really seen many AT ALL! It's a shame that gen2's don't have such an avid following. I guess people like prettier cars for some reason:P

By lilbucu (24.16.243.28) on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 10:20 pm:

hello john s, can i get a front lip spoiler from you then? the other john s said there wasn't enough people to put money up front to make them. i want one bad.

By John S. (68.91.200.232) on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 09:26 pm:

I think maybe a little time might be spent defining the difference between "fibreglas", and "fiberglas", as not all fiberglas is equal, nor is it all the same.
Firstly, fiberglas is a generic term for actual spun, or woven glass. to this some type of resin is used to permeate the fabric which when cured using the proper catayst in the proper ratio to the resin forms a comparatively strong product in relation to its weight. That being said, is only the tip of the iceberg.
In relation to our uses for automotive purposes the key factors are type and weight of the fabric,but even more importantly type of the resin used. There are three basic types of resins.
The one most people refer to and because of cost the one by far most oftenly used is Polyester.
This is the cheapest, but also the least desirable ot the three. Its expansion and contraction rates are not even close to that of steel and that is why things bonded to steel with it most commonly fail over time. It cannot stand the test of temperature swings, or extreme vibration...exactly the problems it must face in automotive use.
The second resin is epoxy. this stuff sticks better to steel, can handle the rigors of summer and winter, only problem is it is about four times more expensive than Polyester, and even more important to the layman about fifty times more toxic. Any of the three resins must be treated with respect when working them, but epoxy can make you real sick real quick, or even Kill You. This is why it is used infrequently in making automotive parts...more expensive...less profit...harder to use properly i.e. safely.
The final of the main three resins is Vinylester.
This has become a favorite with the experimental aircraft boys because it approaches epoxy in all critical areas...strength...stability...strengh of bond to dissimilar materials etc. This at a cost roughly twice that of polyester...half the cost of epoxy, but more importantly, it is little if any more dangerous to the handler than the polyester is. That being said, it is not something to be taken lightly. All of these materials are to be used carefully. At one time people thought Polyester was completely safe to work with, but this has over time been proven not to be the case. the highest profile case I can think of is Duane Hanson, a now dead Artist whos specialty was lifesize and extremely lifelike sculptures of Human forms...made of polyester resin fiberglas. So be careful with this stuff it IS potentially carcinogenic.

By John S. (68.91.200.232) on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 08:43 pm:

Actually Don,
the 'John S" you referred to here is not the same John S...me...who has been with and contributed to this discussion board since it was origionally created by Richard. I also have a mould which I pulled from a Kamei spoiler when mounted on my car to insure fit. My design has a lip added behind and below the reveal on the bottom of the Kamei design, which not only retains the stiffness of the Kamei spoiler, but improves upon it, and still allows for a flexible skirt if one wants to add it. The spoiler shown in the photo is not inherently as stiff as a design as the origional Kamei unit was, though one could just keep layering up enough 'glas to make it so.

By Don (199.2.139.210) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 06:15 am:

http://www.civic1200.com/discus/messages/1/3259.jpg
Just a few minutes search is all it took
John Stallone is his name Like I said fo a street cat its fine.

By Don (199.2.139.210) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 06:09 am:

John S
Do some searching

By Don (199.2.139.210) on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 06:03 am:

I didnt see were show cars have a kamie air dam listed for a gen 2? I see were they have a picture they stole off the board for a gen 1 saying they want to copy it but that would not fit a gen2? Where are you looking? JARCAF
John has been a around a while dont remember his last name. The air dam and body kit talk is in past posts or maybe in the archives by now. You should go through them lots of cool stuff and info saves you from asking the same question twice sometimes.

By Jarcaf (Jarcaf) (207.55.238.216) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 10:55 pm:

Are those guys just flat-out lying about the 80-82 Kamei and flex Air dams? I didn't realize these were available. The flex is probably similar to the kind that's stock on the 1500s and others, but I'd love to see a Kamei on my 2nd gen.

By lilbucu (24.16.243.28) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 09:28 pm:

who is "john" i want a front spoiler!

By Don (199.2.139.156) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 08:54 am:

Mine was for a 1200 but if you want three let me know. I am changing the design to be a bit better aero wise... like I said get in contact with John if you would like as he has the mold done with a lip for a flexible skirt. There are picturessome were here.

By osminsd@aol.com (68.7.165.149) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 08:04 am:

I like the Kamei dams also, but they are nowhere to be found. If you have a mold, let me know when you get some done, I'd love to order three of the Kamei style.

By Don (199.2.139.232) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 05:46 am:

I just realized it was a CVCC, John was supposed to make a mold for one of those too so it might be done. The air dam below could work but it would require that the design be redone. If you look at the side view it may funel air into the enging compartment but this is a bad thing down force wise (look at Malleys HP Scca Civic) and its not low enough to keep anyless air from going under the car that with out one. One advantage is it is so high you would probably never wipe it off so if you want something that doesnt work but looks racy then it may be the ticket as is.

By Don (199.2.139.232) on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 05:34 am:

Personally I like the Kamie style much better and John already has that style already with the mold done and price wasn't too bad either and you don't "cut" anything. Also for SCCA's lower classes you can not have an air dam that juts forward. I have a kamie in my garage that I am reworking to make a mold too as I wanted somthing just a little different in design and I want a mold as the air dams get wiped off often if they are low enough to do any good.

By osmins@aol.com (68.7.165.149) on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 11:53 pm:

Personaly, I like these spoilers because they direct more air towards the radiator. I find this to be an advantage driving in the San Diego freeways. They aren't perfectly made, but they look sharp. Keep in mind that the 78 and 79 CVCC's don't have the two bottom indintations and you'll need to trim that section of the front spoiler. I'm trying to work on having someone make fender flares. I tried matching up some old VW Rabbit flares, but they just didn't look good.

By osminsd@aol.com (68.7.165.149) on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 11:42 pm:

I have access to a guy that could make these spoilers. They fit perfect on Honda Civic CVCC's from 77 and earlier. If you have 78 and 79, you can trim the two bubbles that the 77 and earlier have underneath. He will only make new ones with an order of at least 5. So lets get at least 5 orders in. I'll have two orders for myself, so we now need three more. I'm located in San Diego and would assist in mailing them to you. I also have paypal, but would prefer a money order to avoid fees.

By Don (199.2.139.148) on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 07:34 pm:

About the air damn the front aprons are different for 73-77 and 78-79 so like I said those jokers are just taking your money and running because they cant have one part that fits both.

By lilbucu (24.16.243.28) on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 05:21 pm:

hmm they seem like scam artists. i was looking at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2493966606&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

about a month ago. i was going to bid on it but it ended before i could. i emailed them asking if i could buy it from them outside of ebay. the guy replies to just bid on it agian because it will be relisted. when i see it back up on ebay, the price is upped 20 bucks!!! and now the auction is set up for 30 days instead of the usual week. i will not buy it from them now, knowing what ass holes they are.

they also list a front cvcc spoiler too on ebay. i find it funny that now they say they don't have anymore when they have one listed on ebay. something doesn't seem right with these guys.

By Ed (66.185.85.79) on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 04:19 pm:

I waited 3 days for a response to an email, to find out whether I could pick up an item they listed on ebay. (they are about 45 minutes away, and I wanted to save $30US shipping, knowing they are SLOW !!)

The item was sold via 'buy it now option' and when he did email back he STILL never answered my question... could I buy it and pick it up ???

sadly... they don't have any more front spoilers for the cvcc

By Don (199.2.139.241) on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 06:15 am:

Just a warning to the new people
Looks like Show Cars is up to there old ways.
http://www.showcars-bodyparts.com/civic.html
They posted a bunch of pictures from they stole off the board and act like its their stuff.
In my dealings with these people is that they are very slow and do not send a part that fits like they say. I inquired about flares long ago before my current car and they wanted to get a credit card # but after pressing them it turned out they lost the civic flares and were going to send me "generic" flares that were for a 510! So beware If you do happen to get a part that fits you will be waiting at least 6 months for your order.