what are the stock front spring rates of a US spec 1979 civic 1200 hatch model?

By Colza (Colza) (219.88.29.36) on Monday, November 08, 2004 - 12:31 am:

Don:
"...if it has a 1200 EB that will be plenty for regular street tires and Boge shocks..."

I was trying to say that it wasnt a 1200EB engine, but a city turbo engine. Although thay are more or less the same weight. Missing half the sentence out didnt help =P

Adrian lives in an entirely seperate continent, so i think posting a swaybar is possibly going to be a little expensive. Ill see if i can find one here!

By Don (199.2.139.177) on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 07:01 am:

I dont think so.. I dont run a swaybar on the front.

By Yellowcivic (67.137.137.213) on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 06:53 am:

What is the difference between the stock 1200 civic and the CVCC swaybar? Do they direct interchange?
David

By Don (199.2.139.233) on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 04:43 am:

I didn't understand the fragment of the city turbo, but yes you could go stiffer slighly rear spring wise if you dont have a swaybar in the rear but I found that 1st gen civics dont like to have the stiffest springs in the rear probably because there is nothing back there to be sprug weight wise. This advise was passed on to me from John Lemke, and he was right. My car runs 350 /200 with only a small sway bar in the rear and the rear comes around just fine. Allot of people are monkey see monkey do but I dont think you will get the use out of spring rates this stiff unless you have a full cage, the rest of the suspension is redone..bushings, race shocks, camber plates and you run on very sticky race rubber. other wise what a said about 225/150 (with out a swaybar in the rear you may want to bump it 25# in the rear but I would look up Adrian and get a bar ASAP) will do fine and you wont give your self a headache driving to work

By Colza (Colza) (219.88.31.33) on Saturday, November 06, 2004 - 10:32 pm:

City turbo, but thats more or less the same weight. Isnt it better to run stiffer springs in the rear when you dont have much in the way of swaybars?

By Don (199.2.139.152) on Saturday, November 06, 2004 - 05:46 pm:

boge are street shocks no way are they going to handle that rate. Your can look under www. improvedtouring.com then go to the VW section.. you can see how bad those guys hate Boge for stiff springs. I would trade those springs off to somebody in exchange to some thing around 225/150 if it has a 1200 EB that will be plenty for regular street tires and Boge shocks

By Colza (Colza) (219.88.31.85) on Saturday, November 06, 2004 - 01:06 pm:

I will be running BOGE gas struts for a VW Jetta because thats the openable casing that my setup is built around. Hopefully they will be sufficent. I should imagine i will get new springs wound at a lower spring rate, but the ones for the kit are going on for starters

By Edgar F Sanchinelli (Frito) (63.105.29.199) on Friday, November 05, 2004 - 09:42 pm:

Also, what shock do you plan to pair up with the springs? Gotta think of that too. Once I had EF Civic coilovers along with some Gabriel shocks and it felt like the spring rate of the coilovers was so high that the shock could not work well in conjunction with the spring. It felt like the spring reacted to bump and the shock not being valved to handle such an impact quickly that the car was bouncy...

I've seen some rallycars do this too. Pretty soon you see those cars (this was a CRX) just start hopping because of this when they're cornering or going over rough sections.

Another thing to think about. Putting a rear swaybar on (usually bigger than stock) and running low springs rates like 150 may still leave room for subframe tear or chassis stress back there. Don't you basically try to match things up to work together as to connect the chassis from side to side top to bottom and as an end result create improved rigidity?

heh, sorry I like suspension stuff and tend to ramble...

Francisco

By Colza (Colza) (210.54.103.16) on Friday, November 05, 2004 - 02:50 am:

Don:
Yeah the kit is meant to be for an AE101 FX GT corrolla. They weigh a fair bit more than a civic i should imagine. Anyway, these are going on for starters, i might have to get some new ones wound if they do turn out to be ridiculous.

Im also not sure if i converted the units correctly into pounds/in they are 6kg and 8kg per mm i presume.

By Hugh Johnson (Oneson1) (144.138.198.131) on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 10:42 pm:

Hi, Andrew, that K_Mac bar might be ok but the mounts are rubbish. because of the tapered shape of the bar due to it following the angle of the forward links of the rear suspension, the rubber mounts "creep" up both the roll bar and forward link towards the front of the car. This renders the bar usless. I built proper mounts to the forward links for one with no rubber and the difference was noteable, I then body mounted the bar, and although completely usless for rallying, as it was tooooo loowww. it was the bees knees for smooth surface work. I also did the same thing with the Selby (OZ) bars on both the front and the rear.

hugh.

By lazy (139.130.237.102) on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 10:32 pm:

At this stage I'm hoping to use 16x6.5 or 16x7 rims with 205/40 tyres - pending test fit. I'm also planning on ditching the rear seat and fitting a street-friendly roll cage that'll be welded in place, but using a standard removable strut brace on the front

I'm trying to make it half race car / half daily driver (if that makes sense) - which is an indirect way of saying it'll be driven on our cruddy Australian roads.

Thanks for all the opinions.. keep 'em coming

By John S. (68.90.162.255) on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 07:57 pm:

Kind of off the subject here, but kind of on subject too. I just bought a new issue of a British magazine called Retro-something, got it at Barnes and Nobles, it wasn't cheap but it had several articles I wanted to have on file. The point is there was an advertiser in there called Superflex which is listing polyurethane bushings for 73-83 Civics...made in OZ...they have the same part numbers as the Whiteline ones. Come in four different durometers too! I don't know how to add a link, but their website address is:
www.superflex.co.uk

By Adrian (Evocivic) (203.42.97.141) on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 04:48 pm:

The K-Mac rear bar is actually made by Whiteline, just painted a different colour . It's the original Whiteline design that you should be able to get from them if you ask.
The 'new' design was built to go on my car and doesn't really work too well. I wanted a bar that didn't hang down really low where it could get left hanging on a rock...
We tried two different designs, the first that went around the back of the spare wheel well didn't quite work, the second that had a loop hanging down under the wheel well was a disaster as it kept hitting the body. I got sick of the banging and crashing after a couple of weeks and went back to them with their first attempt. With some angle changes it was put back on and turned out not too bad (with some fiddling around). Unfortunately Whiteline only kept the measurements and pictures of the one that didn't work and have been selling it ever since (though the 'working' one is on my car and can be measured at any time). If anybody wants one of the dodgy ones I've got one lying around somewhere.

By Andrew Fatseas (203.63.44.193) on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 04:24 pm:

The other consideration is: what are you going to do with the car? Street or track?

By Andrew Fatseas (203.63.44.193) on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 04:23 pm:

lazy, KMac also make a rear sway bar. Much simpler design than the Whiteline one, and seems to work ok. It's basically a U shaped piece that mounts to the radius arms (two mounts each side).

By Don (199.2.139.238) on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 11:00 am:

Lazy it depends on the tires your going to run and how stiff your Civic is. If your only going to run regular street tires and dont want to tie the cage into the body then you can go lighter because the car wont generate enough grip to use stiff springs. On the other hand if your going to run sticky tires and do a proper cage your estimates sound like a starting point.

By lazy (165.228.57.19) on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 05:57 am:

I just assumed most people knew an EL was iron. It'd be interesting to see exactly how much heavier it is than an eb.

By Don (199.2.139.241) on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 05:34 am:

Colza you must have got a kit for some type of bigger vehicle? Those rates are way way too stiff for any type of street use.
Lazy you forgot to say your running an iron block engine.

By lazy (165.228.57.19) on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 02:22 am:

Thanks for the input Hugh.

The only available rear sway bar I know of is the Addco/Whiteline one.. which is about 16mm or something.

By Colza (Colza) (219.88.32.184) on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 02:20 am:

I would be interested in peoples oppinion on spring rates. I am part way through making a coiliover set for my car and the springs that came with the kit are 450 and 335. I thing i will run the 450's in the rear as firm(!) rear springs in my 2nd gen worked very well (if a little bumpy )

By Hugh Johnson (Oneson1) (144.138.198.174) on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 11:05 pm:

Lazy, get rid of the front bar and your rear bar can then be thinner or using the same bar, more effective. I had both after market bars that were available in OZ on the rear of my car at one time or another, both were crap with too much rubber in the mounts and no positive connection to the chassis. I would seriously look at making your own mounts (even your own bar or one off another car), firmly attached to the chassis as well as the suspension arm. When I did this the difference was amazing. I found I could reduce the castor on the fromt
(already modified) by about 2 degrees. as the turn in became very sharp and predictable.
hugh

By lazy (139.130.237.102) on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 04:19 pm:

Hi all,

I was wondering if I could get some advice on what spring rate/sway bar combo I should run on my civic. I'll be running an EL engine and handling is my main goal. From the little I have read on the subject I'm thinking of 275 front with stock sway bar and 150 rear with the bigger aftermarket sway bar. Thoughts?

Thanks.