Just an update from my previous electrical gremlins trouble. I took the alternator in for testing and indeed the brushes were bad. So I got a new one, and I fixed the wiring harness to the back of the alternator. I then taped off some wires that I guess used to go to an air emissions solenoid that seemed to be shorting. the rough idling was a bad coil. probably another victim of the high dc level when the alernator wiring failed. The car runs smooth now . Timing belt will have to wait until the summer, but I'm sure it's got a fair number of miles on it. The lights don't pulsate anymore either! hurrah! Now I'm going to take the car out for a huge drive. Thanks for everyone's help.

-Richard

By Kurt (205.250.75.226) on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 12:39 pm:

For pulsaating lights check your ground too. I put a new voltage regulator in mine thinking that would fix it and they still pulsated.

By Bryan (66.245.13.212) on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 05:45 am:

pulsating lights is usually not the alt. but the voltage regulator going bad. If there are wires that are bad or not connected properly on the back of the alt. that could also cause it to overcharge.

By Chaffneue (Chaffneue) (66.183.190.188) on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 12:56 am:

I think I figured it out.. with the alternator belt disconnected, the car runs fine. If I put it back on, the car runs like crap again, and the voltage at the battery is 18.7V (!!). the alternator is getting stupid hot and the belt is slipping.. so I do all the haynes voltage tests and all of them are WAY out of whack. simple enough, the alternator's dead. I go to pull off the three pin molex connector on the back of the alternator and then I notice the blk/white wire and the red/white wire are shredded off of the connector completely. DOH. So I guess my fix is a new alternator (mostly because the brushes squeak and the lights pulsate when it's operating normally) and some quality electrical work. Glad it's not timing.. that sounded like a summer afternoon job to me.. This problem actually explains a LOT about what has been going on with my electrical system and stalling problems over the last few months. I guess the voltage just goes too high and the points spark instead of the HV section :P

-Richard

By Bryan (209.186.188.219) on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 02:52 pm:

one thing you might have missed is the carb has an idle solenoid. First thing to do is check to see if it has power on it when the key is on. If it does, then it possibly has been burned up when the voltage regulator overcharged the system.

By Yellowcivic (67.139.228.72) on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 07:31 am:

Is it the 1200? I had a CVCC with the exhaust manifold that is welded thin insulated type. Well the maifold had an internal crack and it would get hot and close up over the exhaust outlet. I could drive the car 50 miles and then it would slow down and not run. I would get out remove a jet from my Webber and blow it out and then it would run great for 50 miles... I was doing this and the jet had nothing to do with the problem. It wouldn't run well at all. I even had one come to me for repair that had its opening closed all the way and it wouldn't start. It took me awhile to figure that one out!
David

By Jason (Roadwarrior) (24.69.255.203) on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 01:28 am:

hey, did you check the points? is it badly pitted?

try resurfacing the points contacts using a small file.

By Chaffneue (Chaffneue) (66.183.190.188) on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 06:53 pm:

Awww.. Don.. have a little more faith.. I'm new to 4 strokes, but I've got a lot of two stroke theory and practice from motorcycles over the years and I know my way around a wrench. I'm pretty sure my car has had a royal bashing and a tonne of miles put on it, so replacing all the old crap probably wouldn't be a bad preventative measure even if it turns out I have a mouse living in my fuel lines, and it doesn't solve the rough running problem. Still, this car is a toy to me, I don't mind if I mess something up as long as I can figure it out again. besides, I have the motorcycle as my daily driver. I think we all learn by practice and maybe just some helpful pointers to add to the hayne's steps would be really appreciated. I'm just a little miffed by my car's wonderful attempts to spite me.. and yeah.. I don't think any shops in my little hole in the wall town know what to do to an old honda except maybe the dealer.

I am going to check everything again tomorrow when I have some more time.. Thanks for everyone's pointers.

-Richard

By Don (63.135.201.90) on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 10:57 am:

Richard you missed my point... OK say you do the timing belt and it still runs rough? A good import mechanic will be able to diagnose the problem for not much $$. Doing all the stuff you have already, you may have spent more than the cost of a diagnostic and how much is your frustration worth? The timing belt on 1200's the marks never line up due to Honda adding a tooth to the belt early in the life of the 1200s. Even in the Honda manual it doesn't address this. Its close but you will never see the marks exactly line up unless you have on of Bryans cam gears or the head is milled enough to take it the extra 1/2 tooth.
Your compression is low for a 1200 in good running shape so maybe it did slip (cant say for sure as the way you took the test may affect the reading) but the chances of two problems happening at once is slim. Maybe its just bad luck though.

By Jonathan (68.193.6.173) on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 10:52 am:

Richard, do you have a timing light? If you check the timing, and it's right on, or close to it, then you can probably rule out the timing belt. Another check is to pull one plug wire at a time when the engine is running. If the engine doesn't change when you pull one plug wire, then there's something going on with that cylinder. The timing light will also help you pick out an intermittant miss, you'll see a longer pause in the flashing at idle. Put the light over one plug wire at a time, and you'll see if it's one cylinder that's missing, or all four.

I'd say those numbers look pretty good for compression, the next step is to put a little oil in the cylinders and see if those numbers take a big jump. If it's only a small jump, then I'd say your rings are good.

By Chaffneue (Chaffneue) (207.236.93.210) on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 10:28 am:

no play in the dizzy.
cyl 1 125,125,130, cyl 4 125 for compression.
that rules out the rings and the distributor, right?

-Richard

By Sue (205.188.116.199) on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 09:17 am:

Richard-
Here are a few tips (these come from my husband-as I know nothing about this stuff!!!)

I am assuming you have a 1200.

#1 GET RID OF THE HAYNES MANUAL!!! We see so many cars come in to the shop for repairs after the owner has "fixed" their car using a Haynes or Chilton's manual. Get yourself a HONDA factory service manual.

#2 Make sure you're at #1 TDC and cam pulley marks line up with head. Then make sure crank pulley marks are lined up. If everything is lined up, then your cam timing is right.

#3 Check your points and check the distributor shaft to ensure there's not excessive play or wobble in the housing. If there's too much wobble, this can cause a cylinder to miss.

#4 Have you done a compression test?

By Kevin (Kman) (68.40.184.98) on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 08:31 am:

I hear that. Even though I'm a novice, I usually only trust myself to do anything (armed with a pile of books). There is little respect for Hondas here in Michigan.

By Chaffneue (Chaffneue) (66.183.190.188) on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 08:21 am:

It doesn't _look_ that hard in the haynes: set the motor to tdc and align the camshaft to marks on the head and put the belt on and tension it.. it just looks really dirty. Does anyone have any pointers to make the job a bit faster? it's probably something I should force myself to learn, but I don't know many people who know how to do this stuff to old hondas (I'm not even sure if I trust the shops around here to do it any better).

By Don (63.135.203.98) on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 06:36 am:

Timming belts are fast to do on gen 1's
If you have never done anything like that be sure to have a friend who does or take it to a reputable shop it wont cost much and they will be able to narrow the problem down in a hurry. I see this all the time... car has one problem and owner "fixes" it now it has many problems (lol)

By Chaffneue (Chaffneue) (66.183.190.188) on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 12:46 am:

So if I do my timing belt (I'm sure it's probably as old as the engine, so like 100,000-200,000 kms) , the front pulley seal and valve clearances should get attention too? I'll take lots of pictures.. :D I 'm sure I can do it.. but that said.. is it more worth my while to limp the car to a shop to do have it done?

-Richard

By Chaffneue (Chaffneue) (66.183.190.188) on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 11:23 pm:

hmmmmmmm.. good question.. I've never checked it.. I'm going to read the haynes manual now. Of course it would slip right when the regulator dies, just to royally aggravate me :P we had a cold snap and then a warm snap, so maybe it slipped when I revved it while it was cold. that would explain the timing going quickly. anything else I can check under the hood?

-Richard

By Jarcaf (Jarcaf) (207.55.238.216) on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 10:42 pm:

Is your timing belt in good shape? Maybe it slipped a notch?

By Chaffneue (Chaffneue) (207.236.93.210) on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 06:29 pm:

it's official..my car is annoying me.. 77 civ HB One night I was out driving ..everything was fine. Then the rain came.. The voltage regulator dies, so I fix it.. the car wont idle worth a damn.. it runs rough at high revs and it idles rough with the choke all the way out.. I even used a few other caps on the coil to see if that would help, because it shorted out when the regulator failed. didn't help one iota .. I've replaced the entire ignition system, I've rebuilt the carb and replaced the fuel filter... all I can think of is either rain got into the tank (highly improbable) even with the cap off it runs like crap... maybe timing..though I don't know why that would suddenly change. someone has to know what to do...

Wishing for the weather to get nice.

-Richard