Can't get the motor to stop pinging
Civic1200 Discussion Board: : Can't get the motor to stop pinging
I wouldn't be shocked if I have worn valve guides being I get a nice puff at startup and just a tad bit when driving around town. thank you for pointing that out I forgot that oil can make for some nice detonation.
the champion plugs seem to fit in there just fine and where the same dimensions as the ones I pulled out but those where autolites so I donno.
as far as vacuum leak I wouldn't be shocked and plan on going through and running all new vac line as soon as I get some money and time but I'm broke without a job so income is kinda here and there. but shouldn't a vac leak show up as lower then 20-22 inches of vacuum? with 22 being the highest reading with the vacuum full advanced. though I do know if I let the car warm all the way up and I spray some carb cleaner near the base of the carb it did bubble up but I don't remember any change in idle speed. I will give it a shot at least with carb cleaner as I have some laying around to see if I can find a vac leak.
though the running lean thing I wouldn't be too shocked over. another thing I noticed is when IG et into the secondaries it doesn't really have anymore pull to it. maybe a little but not as much as I would think it would have extra.
with the thermostat it warms up fairly quick and when it drops down I was refering to not the bottom of the gauge but the bottom of the thick white part or what is considered normal operating (about half way up the gauge) range but no lower. when sitting there or driving at 75 mph it would only go a tad above that and that is all. but I still wouldn't mind changing it just to be on the safe side.
as far as timing I have just been adjusting by ear and the run till it pings then back it off a little.
Just to clarify things a bit. Early CVCC's i.e. '76-79 should run fine on 87 OCT, as they were around 8:1 comp ratio, (actually a little lower). Later CVCC's i.e. 80-83 had higher compression of 9:3 to 1 and they must have at least mid grade, but are designed to run on high grade fuel...Premium. And don't forget as these cars get older carbon deposits increase comp ratio therefore intensify the problem, and if there is too much oil in the works (worn rings or valve guides), then that will cause pinging as well.
thru autozone fuel filter is Deutsch-FF409 or champ-G252. where are you located at?
Tracy, You should use NGK plugs only. Champions aren't made for the Hondas. Look on the sticker on the hood and get the right plugs in there.
If the Accord is like the Civic, timing is checked through a little access port on the front of the transmission, right where the engine block and transmission meet. Should be a rubber plug there that you have to pull out, but they usually go missing over the years.
The white stuff on the plugs is due to the engine running lean. I'd suspect a vacuum leak from somewhere letting more air into the system. You can use a propane torch (not lit, of course 
) and spread a little propane around the vacuum lines while the car is running. If you hear the RPMs change, you've found a vacuum leak.
Your temperature dropping like that makes me thing that your thermostat is stuck open. Same thing happened to me, the car would warm up slowly to normal operating temperature, but as soon as I started driving, it would drop down to barely anything.
The engine should run on 87 Octane, or at least what's called 87 here in the states.
Can't help you out on the filter, maybe the dealer can get one? I can't imagine it costing that much, and you'll know that you have the correct part (hopefully).
I wouldn't play with the timing too much until you have a timing light to see where you are. You won't be able to tell if you're going too far, or not far enough until you get some good data to work from.
hugh I'm in the us so the grades here are 87, 89, 91 least in my parts. I didn't know these things were made to run on premium though
points are new and set the dwell at around 50-51*
plugs are new and going to recheck those soon. they are champian plugs part number rn12yc. though I'm curious since I dont' have a radio in the car or anything else prone to noise would running a non-resistor plug help at all with gas mileage or getting a little pep? what is so bad about the white powder stuff on the grounding arm of the plugs? also if it makes any difference the little ring around the base of spark plugs is a carbon like black though not very thick just a little dusting.
vacuum is right around the 20-22 range when I was running the 87 not sure how it sits now that I put premium in there and adjusted the timing.
carb floats where set according to the turn float till motor dies when dies screw out 5/8 turn that I have seen posted here.
tried to adjust the idle mixture screw but can't seem to find it if someone can help me there I would be happy even more so since when I'm driving I hardly seem to be getting out of the idle circuit (just hardly put a smidge of pressure on the gas pedal)
the fuel filter did have a problem with being plugged and I want to get another one but nobody seems to want to give me the right part so I ended up backflushing the filter it seems to be doing a little better for the moment. does anyone have a part number I can get one at through a schucks, napa, or autozone?
timing belt will be changed fairly soon as I don't know the condition of the belt
I don't have a timing light so can't check the timing but might know someone I can bum one from but thing I don't know is where I would even check it at. I'm used to having a little damper on the pully to check this where on the accord would it be checked?
as far as how hot the car runs when driving around in with the temps the way they are right now at about 50-70* or so my temp gauge will sit at just into the white part. the only time I have seen it go up is when driving at 70-75mph and then it goes up about 1/8" into the start of the thick white on the temp. the fan never kicks on unless I'm just sitting there at an idle and once I start moving the temps fall fairly quick to just at the start of the normal operating temps again
as far as the cvcc circuit I'm not sure how to check that too well being this is all new to me. I'm used to my mazda with efi, no distributor (runs off a crank angle sensor), though I have had a few carb cars befor like my 71 camaro that thing was piece of cake being everything was right up front and simple to adjust this thing just seems a little weird.
another thing I have noticed is when the car is fully warmed up the idle is around 900-1000rpms when I turn the lights on the idle drops to around 600-700rpms was even worse with the 87 octane. shouldn't it stay at 700-750rpms all the time?
with the timing system the only thing I can think of is the advance springs are worn or the vacuum can is on it's way. at leas tthat would be my assumption thinking small block chevy being it is only at lower rpms but thinking more towords the springs.
I have also sprayed the outside and through the barrels of the carb with carb cleaner usually the car tries to stumble a little when I do as such even when spraying a little bit so I don't think I have a lean condition here being lean would usually make the car run a little faster right?
have run about 2-3 bottles of carb/fuel injector cleaner through the gas tank as well as some marvel mystery oil trying to clean things out of the system
any other ideas guys and thanks for the help so far.
Pinging is usually caused by one of few things, already mentioned are low octane gas, or incorrect timing. But on CVCC motors you also have the potential for pinging from an overly lean mixture caused by a CVCC valve gunked up and either not opening properly or even bent and not opening at all. Also associated with the CVCC design is a malfunctioning carburator where the CVCC fuel passage, being smaller than the primary and secondary main fuel passages is prone on high mileage cars, or cars that sit around a lot to gunk up too. Then all the cylinders are running way too lean...an accident waiting to happen... this also results in low power, pinging, and worse. Usually under this condition the motor will run noticably hotter than normal, especially when the ambient temperature is hot.
I'd check the condition of the CVCC circuit...IF it is a CVCC car.
where are you Tracy, if you are in OZ, then you've got a problem as accords ran on "Super" and not "standard" low octain fuel, so you'll need to look at running the expensive hi octaine unleaded and playing with your timing.
hugh
everything's telling me have your carb, advance mechanism, timing belt, timing and dwell checked and rechecked.. something isn't right if the plugs are white on the tips..
-Richard
I'm not sure what all is going on here with my 76 accord. these cars are made to run on 87 octane correct? last time I tried it I adjust the timing just a smidge retarded from the point it pings (no timing light not sure what the timing is set to). the car ran like crap though. it seemed not to have any pull above 3000rpms, at idle it would run then have it's little stumble, at stop lights when letting off the gas it would try to die sometimes for a moment then straighten out.
if I advance the timing a little more it seemed to run better, not die, idle smoother and actually move but it started pinging.
when I had about a half tank of gas gone I figured might try putting 91 octane in there and was able to advance the timing a little bit to where it seems to run better but it is still acting like it could use just a little more.
the weird thing with the pinging is it isn't through the whole rpm range just in the 1600-2400rpm range or so at only seems to happen under partial throttle.
checked the plugs and they are mostly white on the little arm piece, the points are new. the vacuum advance I noticed gets no vacuum at idle but it does go up as the throttle is opened.
is there something thta is wrong here that I need to check?