At this point you should probably just leave the aux float down where it will not flood and try the fuel/air screw trick. I will see what I can do about getting the plugs out that way, the Co. my friend works for has a big store in Nampa and they have trucks going back and forth all the time, Worth a try, from my end. Up until today I thought that I was going to be up there next weekend and would be able to help you finish the car, sorry I won't be making the trip right away at least. Call if you need to, I have no life , if you do catch me at home I am more than happy to try to help out. Good Luck.

By Tracy (Rx7speed) (207.200.116.137) on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 08:58 pm:

one last point I forgot to mention. sometimes when adjusting the floats by the 5/8 turn method when adjusting the aux floats it doesn't die. what it ends up doing is just flooding the aux barrel full of fuel and spilling over the top. runs a little rough but doesn't die as it is claimed the car should do.
it's not leaking past the seat screw it is just pouring out into the venturi itself and stays there but keeps on chugging. though if I shove my finger in the hole it doesn't like that and wants to die :-D. sorry I get bored and frustrated working on this car

as far as the plugs I have only been able to find the autolights and champions here in caldwell through the stores I went to and since my transportation is limited find it hard right now to head to boise to grab plugs.
tried them in both normal and extended reach to no effect.

By Username (Username) (68.116.93.157) on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 08:30 pm:

Hey Tracy, One more thing to try before you drive the car off a cliff (I know you are ready by now), After getting caught up on what you have done I would suggest that you pull the throttle cable bracket off the front of the carb, under it there is a third hole with the auxiliary air/fuel screw in it. screw it in until it lightly seats, counting how many turns until it stops, so that you have a reference. now back it out until the top of the screw is just flush with the body of the carb and reassemble, start it up and see how it runs. This will allow you to run the Auxiliary circuit rich and diagnose weather or not that is the problem. You can drive the car this way but the mileage might suffer, and it will not pass an emission check. Give it a try its quick and easy. Did you ever get "good" plugs in it? I just talked to my buddy in Boise and he is able to get NGK, or NipponDenso plugs locally, if you are having trouble give me a call and I will see what I can do!

By Darrell--Arizona-- (68.109.151.121) on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 07:23 pm:

Spark, Gas, Air, and Compression

Check for bent or crimped exhaust pipe.
(doubtful on that one)

Use a timming light...
If your spark is bad, you will see the timming light cut out as it stalls. If your spark is good....I'm thinking you'll see the light continue to blink for a second while the car is stalling.

If the timming light test looks good, I'd suspect the carburation. My gut is saying your carburation is bad.

By Tracy (Rx7speed) (207.200.116.137) on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 06:56 pm:

can't seem to find a vac leak anywhere
spray carb cleaner everywhere an never a change in idle unless it is sprayed right down the carb
but I can try again tomorrow.
though I not when I did a compression test also di a vac test
20" with the choke halfway between the fist and second detent (only way I could keep the car at idle)
if I put the choke fully open vaccum was around 10-15 bouncing then the car would die.


one thing though isn't 140 psi really high for this car?

By paul (24.81.146.102) on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 06:33 pm:

Vaccum leak?? just an idea.

By Tracy (Rx7speed) (172.193.225.47) on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 06:18 pm:

well another tidbit of information. I was thinking that 140psi and it was 140 dry as well as doing a wet compression check with a little oil (now tested on all 4 cylinders) was a little high with only 8:1 compression so I went through and was pouring some MMO/ATF mix down the carb (didn't have diesel) to see if there where some carbon deposits and when letting it run down the aux barrel the idle speed picked up and was smooth at around 2000rpms. seemed to help out a little down the main barrel also but not as much and was easily overdone to where it wanted to die. another thing is it seems that the fluid doesn't want to leave the barrel that easily. it did go down to a point but after that just seems to slowly drain out of there.


another thing I noticed is before the with the choke off to keep the car running I would need to spray carb cleaner down there which would indicate a lean condition correct? but if I pull the plugs they are coated in blackish powder like stuff that kinda smells like gas and they are mostly dry.
and by now everything on the ignition is verified good working order
new plugs/wires/cap/condensor/points/coil so yeah

By Colza (Colza) (219.88.31.64) on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 10:59 pm:

I would suggest a compression test on ALL of the cylinders, not just 2 of them....

By Tracy (Rx7speed) (172.194.99.180) on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 08:28 am:

replaced the coil with another coil still same thing. and did a compression test on two different cylinders. dry for each of them was 140 wet was 140. if I hold the throttle fully open I was able to get about 169 or so and this was on a motor that was cold.


so at this point think I might be back to carburation.
can someone tell me the correct order to go about cleaning the jets out as well as how high the fuel should sit in each bowl

void transit the car will not hold an idle hardly at all. when I do drive it down the road at times it runs somewhat smooth other times it just bucks and moans like it doesn't like

By void transit (4.159.177.119) on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 02:07 am:

Tracy, I've been in your situation before, and I know how frustrating it can be. You're in a catch 22. You can't get to work with out a car and you can't keep the car going with out cash, so you have to work.

However; I'm a little confused. It sounds like, from what you have described, that the car WILL run, but at less than a convenient level, correct? That is to say it'll take you to work, but you're not sure if it will do it tommarow.

For me there are just too many avenues to persue. I need to be able to differentiate between the bad from the not so bad. The problems do not "seem" to be related.

Get that coil replaced as soon as yesterday already was and lets go from there. And for now, replace it with a NEW, STOCK coil, not an aftermarket coil (i.e. ACCELL, MSD, ect)

Let me ask you this: What is MOST troubling about the car? Is it the smoke, poor idle, or the noise.

Unless your car is pouring out, I mean huge clouds, out white or blue smoke, I'd say that your engine is not going to grenade on you and that it should get you to work and back, at least for now.

Arthur

By bradda (203.134.138.149) on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 02:21 am:

bradda, the new civic owner is from melbourne , victoria australia, so my steering wheel is on the passenger side for you guys.hey thanks for the civic time line, that isnt something thats easliy come by in books/ manuals.
i thought perhaps because of the hatch/trunk that was a different generation, but body shapes determine the generation. is there a particular honda civic body shape that is the most famous,as in when you say honda civic,what would the average person associate as an image with that car.

By Tracy (Rx7speed) (207.200.116.137) on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 10:38 pm:

void transit the coil needs replaced because it puked the cooling oil out. sure might still be within specs right now but with the oil inside the coil gone it isn't going to last long and prolly going to overheat and start to break down the insulation.
since I had problems after taking the top piece to the carb off the condensor, cap, spark plugs, wires (stole the set of my rx7 and I know they are good wires), the rotor is still the same rotor being there was no wear on it at all and fits nice and snug on the dist shaft.

also verified many times I should have the wires hooked up right for the firing order. 1342 going counter clockwise on the dizzy with #1 being the one with the little ridge on it.

as far as the carb being setup by a shop I would like to do that but I'm broke and just got this job and need to pay for quite a few other things as well and if I can do it myself I would much rather do it that way being it's cheaper. it's just at this point I'm getting confused as to what the problem is or rather what's causing it

all in all it seems to do ok when I hold the rpms up... it just will not idle without the choke on to just beforethe second detent. never has since I took the top of the carb off to replace those o-rings. and it doesn't matter if I get it slightly lean slighty rich it just will not idle.

By username (68.116.93.157) on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 05:43 pm:

That's almost right!

By Civic81wagon (Civic81wagon) (64.12.116.199) on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 05:15 pm:

Civic timeline

1st gen ------ 1973-1979
2nd gen ------ 1980-1983
3rd gen------- 1984-1986
4th gen------- 1987-1991
5th gen------- 1992-1995
6th gen------- 1996-2001
7th gen------- 2002-2005

By Darrell--Arizona-- (68.109.151.121) on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 02:38 pm:

You've got a first gen. Second gen is 1980 - ?

Where are you from?

By bradda (211.27.77.149) on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:54 am:

this is my first discussion with other civic owners. can i ask what determines first generation and second generation. mine is a 1978 model hondamatic 1200 hatch. is that second generation?

By bradda (211.27.77.149) on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:46 am:

hey there, brad from melbourne here. just reading the posts trying to learn. i bought the car six months ago and have already reconditioned the head. but i keep coming back for more.

By void transit (4.159.181.127) on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:17 am:

Tracy,

Slow down there buddy! I wouldn't go pulling the head or assuming that you have a broken ring until you've checked out all the basics. Eliminate what you have as good or bad before throwing money at it. Like my high school auto's teacher told me, "In order to pass my class, you just need to remember one rule: K.I.S.S" That is Keep It Simple... Stupid.

I'd like to lend a hand, so let's get right down to it. As of your last post about ignition:

"now it doesn't make much of a change on any of the spark plug wires on if I take one off or not
they all make very small change"

But it does make a change though, correct? If you did have a DEAD cylinder there would be NO change.

I think that your within the right line of thinking, but looking in the wrong area. Plugs and wires are the business end of the ignition system, but there is a lot going on up stream that could be causing your woes.

Distributer Cap is it cracked? Dusty on the inside? Corrosion on terminals? Is the clip on the top of the rotor making good contact with the cap? Are the points worn? Or are they set correctly? Are the valves adjusted properly (not the ignition system, but this could be your entire problem)? Wires going to coil, ballest resistor are they hard, old, insulation cracked or making good contact with the terminals. Do you really KNOW that your coil needs replacing or just assuming? Is your coil dirty (Do you know why a coil is shaped like it is, if you don't, ask me)? Is the condensor (small metal can on side of dist) in good shape, if this goes or is not hooked up all sorts of problems can happen.

You've got a lot of homework to do before you go taking off the head and what's great is that until you find the right part that is bad, it won't cost you a dime.
If you don't feel that you can check these things because of a lack of tools, there is usually a guy that rebuilds starters and alternators. most of these guys will have the equipment or knowhow to check ignition components. Most of these guys are good honest people just trying to make a few extra bucks and will usually test your components for you for free, but you have to bring them to him.

I'd go to one of these guys before talking to the boobs at ImportZone (AutoZone), but remember he'll be happy to tell you whats good or bad, but don't ask him to fix your problem.

By DaRk (66.50.181.244) on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 08:08 pm:

oh and also...check that you put the cables to the plug it belongs to... cuz' that'll make it act wierd too

By DaRk (66.50.181.244) on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 08:04 pm:

Well Tracy..Do you still have the old plugs? or the Champion ones? try putting those back in...so you dont have a little sight? how come? and on the jets... Try taking them out (screwing them out, or well... take the carb. to get redone) now price range on that mine costed $125USD and was done in 1/2hr. so..

By Tracy (Rx7speed) (172.198.182.80) on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 03:53 pm:

the original plugs that came with the car are autolite plugs. I replaced with champion ry12yc they ran great. don't recall the newest plugs I have in there though. I know these aren't the plugs made for the car but I can't find any NGK's around here at this point through the stores I have went to.

the car ran great untill it started having flooding issue with the carb. found out the o rings on the seats for the float were shot. all I did was replace those, replace the accell pump and spray some carb cleaner through the jets. since then it has been HELL!!!

haven't touched the cam, or anything else and that is all I messed with till this all started happening.

still need to get a new/newer coil in there though to at least take care of almost all the ignition related stuff


and I have adjusted floats to what should be spec but just curious here just incase something isn't right if I let the car run and let the fuel bowl fuel up to where it should does anyone have a mesurement in mm of how high the fuel should sit since I don't have the little sights.

also could cleaning the jets out have possibly pluged them up? one of the guys I spoke to said it might be a chance of that going on and if so what is the correct order to spray them babies out?

By Jarcaf (Jarcaf) (207.55.238.216) on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 11:19 am:

Is your cam timed properly to the crank?

By DaRk (66.50.182.152) on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 07:34 pm:

Tracy...are the "new" plugs the same "code" as the original ones? (the ones it came with) cuz' when I got mine it was ok so I bought new plugs you know to do a tune up...and well they didn't give me the ones with the same code so the car started to backfire and alot of other crap, so I took the carb to get repaired and when I got it back...same prob. checked the cables..still same prob. , so I decided to put the original plugs back in and there, prob. solved

By Tracy (Rx7speed) (207.200.116.137) on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 07:15 pm:

didn't see any water in the oil or oil in the coolant.
as far as taking the #1 plug off and it didn't run right I figured lets play a game here and just replace the spark plug. just to see if that was it even though the plugs are new.
now it doesn't make much of a change on any of the spark plug wires on if I take one off or not
they all make very small change

By Junior (64.12.116.199) on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 09:56 am:

Blown headgasket, water come out from exhaust, water in oil, overheat, idle jumping like crazy. Do compression test. Take the head off your motor and inspect for wrath, bend or crack. The exhaust valve might be cracked. Good luck.

By Colza (Colza) (219.88.32.73) on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 02:09 am:

Water in the oil? Oil in the water? Exhaust in the water?

By bruce (63.26.88.145) on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 05:29 am:

what I'm assuming though is I have a bad valve not seating right or maybe bent or a worn out cylinder/broken ring this sounds like your on the right track, your going to end up taking your head off to check everything out, you can borrow a compression checker from an auto parts store, normally you have to put a deposit on it but you get it back when you return the tool.

By Tracy (Rx7speed) (172.193.108.84) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 10:23 pm:

on my 76 accord had another post going about my car not running right and it seems things have taken a turn for the worse so far. anytime I remove the #1 spark plug wire while the car is running there is no change as to how she runs. when the car warms up a little bit there is a little change in rpms removing that wire but still not much. I know the coil is weak but I would think that would affect all cylinders not just this one. I also borrowed a set of wires from my rx7 just to make sure I didn't have a wire issue and it didn't change anything. I know if I hold the wire a tad from the spark plug it will spark the gap to the plug so there is spark getting to the plug at least and only hope is it just grounds out at the plug somewhere due to broken porcelin or something though I doubt it.

what I'm assuming though is I have a bad valve not seating right or maybe bent or a worn out cylinder/broken ring.


just a little more info as to what I have noticed. I'm getting a metallic clang,ping like noise (not detonation) when the car is cold and first started and sometimes can be heard if you give it much gas, it is giving me a decent amount of smoke out the tailpipe right now not a whole lot but enough to notice. also I would think it if was a ring issue I would have lots of air comming from the condensation chamber which right now I don't have but just a little amount that I would think is normal.
only other thing I can think of is I was getting a little tick tick noise comming from the upper end of the motor and so think the valves might not of been adjusted correctly

I haven't dont a compression check yet as I don't have a compression tester.

just want to hear what your opinions are as to what you think it might be and how much it might cost to fix and where I can get parts to fix it. also if it is a head issue do I have to have the head skimmed and the block or cause the cheaper I can do it the better since I'm broke and only make 120 a week right now