well guys finally my dad took the car and decided send it to a paint shop!!! but hey here is a pic with the car almost stripped to the bare metal!

By nathan (24.85.232.159) on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:26 am:

right on! nice work...just get the metal prep on there, it'll help slow down any rust. Humidity and bare metal rusts quick, even where you can't see, you will feel it with your fingers....Can't wait to see it, nice work!!

By felipe casanova (200.74.68.241) on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 04:47 pm:

the only problem with por-15 guys is that i live in chile.... shipping is way expensive for me....today the car is almost full polished, and i keep founding metal patches that are rusted to death, so new patches coming...and well i can take pics yet! daaaaamn! i removed ALL the bondo the car is now on pure polished bare metal!

By John S. (207.160.168.243) on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 12:57 pm:

I've used that POR-15 metal prep, and it is an excellant product. For those of you who need to use paint stripper on your cars, be aware it will eat into any bondo substrate on your car and require you to grind it all out and redo all areas affected. If you know your car has bondo on it then mechanically strip those areas, and only use the stripper on the worst areas or those without a bondo substrate. Oh yeah, and wear glov es and work in an area where there is a lot of air movement, stripper is very caustic both to your skin, and your nose and throat.

By nathan (24.85.232.159) on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 08:33 am:

http://www.por15.com sells a good marine metal prep. They also have some interesting products...can't say it's good or not though.

Nice work with your car, sounds like your doing it right....once. Good work, and I can't wait to see photo's of the end job

By Knifeboy (154.20.234.195) on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 09:22 pm:

Hey Felipe, you've got some really nice shots of your car on your cardomain site! Especially liked the night time pics with the street lamps in the background. Can't wait to see how everything turns out after all your hard work.

By felipe casanova (200.74.126.132) on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 07:40 pm:

well it`s been a looong process, removing old bondo like crazy and finding pretty nasty stuff underneath like 4 types of different bondo layers, 2 parts welded, bondo filling holes, bondo on good metal, just as knifeboy says the pre-process before painting is the awful part, paint is too easy compared to the previous thing, well the bodywork will do it a friend who restores muscle cars but i will have to take pics before....tomorrow hopefully pics will be uploaded thanks for your support guys there is no turning back now!

BTW every day i have to grit the small rust forming pretty pain in the ...but whatever hahah
if you guys wanna see the car before watch www.civic77.com felipe casanova, or www.cardomain.com/id/honda77

By Knifeboy (154.20.234.195) on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 03:31 pm:

Sorry, forgot to mention that I didn't use automotive paint. Guess that's a big detail to have left out. The stuff I used is actually a single stage paint often used for painting dump trucks, large rigs, bridges and stuff. It dries to a nice gloss finish even without clearcoat. Plus it's durable as hell. This stuff would level off the grand canyon, that's why I was able to get away with only sanding up to 220grit and still get a smooth finish. You normally wouldn't use this paint for layering so two coats would've been more than enough to smooth out the grit. But I needed more coats to apply the pearl and candy.
Like others have suggested take the time to sand the car down with a higher grit for the best results. I don't know if everybody here would agree but I personally think that the actual painting is the easiest stage in the whole process. It's all the prep work before the paint that'll make or break ya.
Let us know how your project goes!

By nathan (24.85.232.159) on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 10:10 am:

Some great advice, this will be a good thread later for the search feature.

I agree with knifeboy about tack clothing and air gunning, especially nooks and crannies, dust loves those spots....door jams, hood, hatch etc. Also covering the floor in water the night before, and morning of the spray will keep ambiant dust down...wet towels over the wheels (or take them off)

I also agree with Don about paint filling in lines. Some primers like feather fill etc. are designed to do it, but I have never had luck with it. Sanding and filling is the only way, I have experienced the same issue with it looking great than shrinking, or metallics running into the small lines and giving a very inconsistant look.

Glaze, I have never had issues with it on base clear, omni, or any other urethane. But mostly once I am done sanding there is non left, or just enough that when you see a swirl from the grinder, when you look in the little lines, there is the red glazing puddy (basically filling the lines) I found glaze is a good reminder for sanding an area, and will fill the smallest of imperfections...however I have heard if you have a thick application of it it may cause issue's, but you should use bondo not glaze for thick applications....to give you an idea, glaze comes in a tube, and bondo comes in gallon format Don is also right that anytime you use two part filler, it will be better.

Don also mentioned bead plasting (plastic media) and powder blast. My dad did that on his 62 t-bird and said it had great results. He did bead plasting. It stripped it without leaving pit's and a rough surface. But sounds like you have already don't the blast


Post some pics of your car, I can't wait to see it.

By felipe casanova (200.28.224.81) on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 09:32 am:

soda blasting? what items are involved in that???
never heard it before

By Don (199.2.139.200) on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 07:08 am:

Ok some mistakes in the advise
sanding a car with 220 then hoping that 6 coats of paint will fill in the gouges ...Nope it will look good for a while but as the paint shrinks the scratches will show up. Paint with a chemical hardener will help this but the proper way is to sand it one more time with 400 or finer. Glazing putty is an old term get the type that you mix up like bondo as the old style will shrink and cause problems under some modern paint. If you going to strip the car a plastic media or soda blasting is the best it will remove the paint without scratching any metal and is quick.

By felipe casanova (200.30.216.40) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 08:29 pm:

thanks a lot guys! i`ll post pics soonest i can but the car was full of bondo even on places where the metal was ok, today i removed almost half pound of bondo on rear quarters!!! and that thing about the rust on the metal IS true haha every day i have to sand the little soft rust but goes rapidly away!

By Knifeboy (154.20.234.195) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 03:42 pm:

Just wanted to add that right before I started priming/painting the car I blew if off with an air nozzle then wiped it down with some wax and grease remover. Then I went over the entire car again with a tack cloth to pick up all the little hairs and dust that didn't get wiped off. After that, prime and paint.

By nathan (24.85.232.159) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 11:54 am:

it is a like a bondo. It's glazing putty officially...

I would use a metal prep...Lordco might have one. I talk to Mike at the Marine Drive Vancouver Location. The bare metal will have surface rust and oxidation really quick being exposed. Even though you may not see it, you need the metal prep to etch the metal and remove all oxidation etc. It will prepare the metal to accept the paint.

Then yes, do all bondo work to bare metal for better results and adhesion, prime, glaze, sand prime, sand, paint...

Good luck!

By Felipe Casanova (201.239.229.52) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 11:38 am:

well guys, THANKS a LOT for your replies, but my car is already to the bare metal in practically every part of it..so you guys say that i should leave it and beginning addin some primer and sand to leave smoothest possible and then reprimer and sand till the surface is smooth? and what i should add to the metal aside the primer?

by the way my english is not too technic...so what is glaze???

THANKS AGAIN GUYS!

By nathan (24.85.232.159) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 09:31 am:

I also wouldn't recommend paint striping. Once the metal is exposed you will need to prep it before paint will stick to it. It will be a nightmare, a very toxic nightmore, the chemicals are harsh...I have only had one friend do it and it seemed like more work than needed...you have good paint there, listen to Jarcaf on that one...

By nathan (24.85.232.159) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 09:28 am:

Knifeboy has a great point that the grinder you saw me useing, That was for rust locations only.

It gets you back to real solid metal and flush's out any pits etc. and will find a hole if there is one...These area's will then have bondo applied and or applicable welding of fiberglass. I really think no matter how small you always need to apply more bondo than not, so when you sand it down it will look smooth and flush, not a bump or indent.

A common error that'll make body work look rough is sanding just the area were you applied bondo, basically getting a dent again. The idea is you want long smooth apllications of bondo, with long flat sanding to blend the body lines. So long 1/8 to 1/4 inch strip's. Sand flush with (I prefer 120 to bite into the bondo and get down quick) You would want to use a flat sander, or flat jitter bug sander, or flat block of 2x4 with 120 grit on it....use lots of sand paper, it's cheap and makes sanding easy...then sand your bondo area's and the area around them, do long fluid motions going with the body lines, not up and down, commonly left to right and 45 degree angles from that. At this point I usually am sanding the whole car, or at least area's I know I will glaze.

Then once the bondo'd area's are done and the car in general looks good, and to the hand, feels smooth (if you feel an edge or slight indent you will see it in the end...) At this point I will glaze, use a quality glaze. Glaze is meant to dry fast, so don't be shocked, it is also meant to go on very very thin, or it takes forever to dry. It is a very lightweight bondo basically, it will fill your swirl marks from the 120 grit and any remaining imperfections in your bondo'd area's. The glazing you saw Jan do on the 82 was to much....it took forever to sand, everyone has to learn somehow though..

So spread it thin, with long applications over very large area's. A good body shop would basically skim coat the car with it for restoration. At this point I then sand with 220+ grit, the entire car...

Then like knifeboy, I prime. I will reduce your high build primer with some laquer thinner so it'll flash quicker and spray a panel at a time, looking for all imperfections while the paint is wet...get down at an angle and look the length of the car at the reflection, if the reflection has a wobble or ding, back to work...bad bondo will usually show as a wobble, mostly door panels as they are long and flat...

cont'd below...

By nathan (24.85.232.159) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 09:28 am:

So I will spray a section at a time and look for issue's, I usually grease pencil the spot immediately with a small dot. Have a beer...or two, wait for the primer to dry up, and sand that area, bondo, sand, glaze, sand and prime again...see if your ding free....once the body looks clean I will use 400 to 600 grit sand paper (or even better 800 in water for base clear jobs.) So for the 82 civic we just used 600 as it was a alkelide paint.

Once the car is sanded down and it still only has primer..no metal showing, or bondo, or anything else, and is soft like babies butt, I wash the car, air gun out any wet spots (usually try and leave it for the night to dry) and tack cloth in the morning, apply rocker gaurd etc.

I like at least three coats base color, first hit door jams, creases, fender wells, second coat is usually a good tack coat (if you not happy try one or two more coats, leaving the last as a tack coat), the last coat you want it to look the way you want it to look in the end, the paint should want to run off, but won't because your tack coats, this will give you a lush, thick looking color and allow a smooth transfer for the clear to sit on.

Then let it dry until it is totally dry, (I would recommend using 800-1000 grit water sand paper and sand the whole car before clear, you will get great bite and it will bring the color out...it will also make it very smooth for the clear.)

For clear with pearls, do pearl first coat and maybe second, but never last coat, as in time as the paint slowly gets eaten back you will effect the pearl and it will start to look blotchy.

Same applies here with spraying the clear. Do the nooks and crannies, then a tack coat (or two if you like) Then spray a thick layer of clear on to the tack coat, again, make it look the way you want it in the end...shiny and smooth.

Anyway thats it....I would never recommend using a paint or primer as a filler...bigger dents, bondo...small imperfections, glaze. High build primers will assist in hiding swirl, and are designed to level out little imperfections. But in the end, don't rely on it. If you want a show car, don't rely on paint. It is all about sanding...sanding and more sanding...then do some more sanding.

Just a tip: Tack coats I usually just test by whether it can hold my finger print without the paint coming off, I check under a rocker gaurd...

Also wear a mask foe every stage of this to save your lungs...and good luck...I can help some more, or you may say I'm nutz...everyone has there own way. Mine is passed on from my 60 year old dad who was a show car painter for 20 years...so I could go on for days....(My pops name is Curt Haynes and did a lot of Frnak Frazetta works on vans at car shows throughout the okanogan in the late seventies and early eighties...as well as funny cars etc...just for you salty dogs out there)

By Jarcaf (Jarcaf) (207.55.238.216) on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 10:30 pm:

jitterbug or random orbital sanders work great combined w/ about 200 grit paper. You can go rougher but it cuts through to metal faster, and I just went to the original primer to spray on. They are more easily controlled than a grinder, and it's easier to clean up the sanding scratches. I bought "How to Paint Your Car" and it was a life saving book...highly recommended.

By Knifeboy (154.20.234.195) on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 10:15 pm:

I would only use the grinder on real rough surfaces such as rusty fenders or thick bondo areas. I found that the grinder sometimes cuts too deep into the body and you end up spending more time filling in all the scratches.
When I repainted my car I just gave it a down sanding using an orbital sander with 120grit. 100grit would've worked better but 120 was all I had and it did a pretty good job. Then I did all my welding and filling and sanded down those touch-up areas with 120. Then I spray a coat of high build on the entire car to bring out all the pinholes, dents, and other imperfections. Finally I sanded down the entire car with 220/240 grit and it was ready for paint. Most people would go as high as sanding with 600 grit or even more, but because I was doing a multicoat paint job I knew the 5-6 layers of paint and clearcoat would smooth out the slight texture left by the 220 grit. Hope that helps. Oh yeah, the entire process from initial sanding, bodywork, paint and reassembly took me 3 days. Good luck!

By Darrell--Arizona-- (68.109.151.121) on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 10:14 pm:

I don't think you need to take off all the paint. Use the old paint to make a smooth surface. Its easier than making the metal smooth.

I'd take my time and do it right...but I've been saying that for three years.

I like to use sanders with a large platform because they smoothen a larger area. I think my sander uses 1/4 sheets of sandpaper.

By Felipe Casanova (200.30.216.72) on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 09:14 pm:

hi guys! im in process of repainting my civic, i`ve using only 220 sanding paper and, paint remover, but it`s a SLOW progress and the car was FULL of bondo too and i need the car before july 16th for a show, can i use a grinder with sand paper on it ?i`ve seen that on nathan and dorota 80`s civic, or the metal will be damaged or scratchted? please help me...i need to advance fast as possible